Lee Thorn/Anousak Souphavanh Interview · 1840 words posted 12/18/2002 05:10 PM
The Jhai Foundation focuses on building relationships with the people of Laos. One of the foundation’s current projects is the Jhai Computer, a pedal-powered Linux computer designed to connect Laotian villagers to the internet and to each other.
Lee Thorn is the head of the Jhai Foundation. Anousak Souphavanh is a Laotian programmer working for IBM who assists the Jhai foundation with Linux localization.
since1968: How did you become involved with American-Lao activism?
Lee Thorn: I loaded bombs that fell on Laos in 1966. When I decided to return in 1998 I brought some medical supplies. Through that I met some great people and my PTSD [Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder] symptoms began to subside. For example, I now often sleep through the night. Out of gratitude to my new friends in Laos, I decided to start a project with Bounthanh Phommasathith, whose village was destroyed by American bombing.
since1968: Can you describe the Jhai Remote IT Village project?
Lee Thorn: It is a computer and communications project. We are creating a system for communicating words and data. We designed to the exacting specifications of villagers. We are providing computers and a way to get onto the internet in villages that have no electricity nor telephones nor cell phone possibilities because of terrain. In five villages we are placing new rugged, no-moving-parts, low power-consuming computers, dot-matrix printers, keyboards and rollerballs. These are powered by foot cranks – stationery bicycles with generators running against the rims hooked to batteries. The batteries are hooked to the computers and printers via cable. Each villages’ system can “see” a point on a hill via a WiFi (802.llb) antenna. The access point on that hill can “see” an antenna on a hospital about 10 km away. The access point is powered by a solar panel and sits in a tree – with a conventional alarm on it. The antenna at the hospital (chosen because it is 100 m from a microwave tower) is hooked to a “server” – another Jhai computer that has a PbaX card in it and is hooked to two landlines – one to the Lao Telecom system and one to the internet. This allows villagers to talk, email, and “chat” with others using a LINUX based KDE localized program.
since1968: Have you worked with the engineers who built the Simputer? Isn’t there a large overlap in your goals and technology?
Lee Thorn: We know about them and some of our engineers have met some of theirs. I am not technical, so I’m not sure about the technology, but our goals – bridging the digital divide – are similar. I believe our system will work for villagers like the ones we are provided it for in the pilot. We hope to launch in February – we need a little more money, not much. We designed exactly to their expressed needs. That seems to be unique.
since1968: The literacy rate in Laos is reported to be below 60%. How do you ensure that everyone benefits from the Jhai PC when so many people can’t read or write?
Lee Thorn: The system is owned by the villages and is run by literate middle school kids – literate in Lao. No one in these villages has much English. Sort of like my village of San Francisco. Here very few people speak Lao.
since1968: There’s also a large literacy gap between men and women in Laos. Some development projects, such as those by Grameen Bank in Bangladesh, focus on empowering women. Will the Jhai PC project promote gender equality in Laos?
Lee Thorn: Yes, it promotes gender equality – 2 out 3 trainees so far were women.
since1968: To someone who doesn’t speak the language (me), Lao script looks a lot like Thai. Are you localizing the Jhai PC to support Lao script?
Anousak Souphavanh: Yes, Lao and Thai had a lot in common, i.e., culture and language. Lao scripts are derived from the old Sanskrit and Pali. What I am doing is to localize the existing (popular) Linux Desktop environment called KDE. The Jhai PC is designed so that it can run Linux and KDE as the choice of Desktop environment.
since1968: Localization isn’t just about supporting an indigenous script. Does the desktop interface popular in the West make sense in Laos, or have you developed a localized interface as well?
Anousak Souphavanh: For myself, I really have no problem with the English user interface. However, we are talking about Lao people with various education backgrounds. Most, as far as I am concerned, are local people; the only thing they know are the words like “hello” and “goodbye.” So Lao localization will give users the look and feel in Lao language. This Lao localization project will strive to bring the benefits of Information Technology down to the Lao masses. I want to make technology accessible to the majority of Lao that does not speak English.
Almost all software and operating systems and websites in available in Laos and around the world today Lao are in the English language.
As we know it, many people in Laos are currently excluded from computer use, the Internet, and the World Wide Web by absence of software in the language, which the majority of Laotians speak. A number of software systems of wide use have been localized in various international languages like Thai, Chinese, Arabic, etc. However there has been virtually no software localization into any of the major language of Lao. Linux is a robust and stable operating system and also freely available. So I have taken the step to localize Linux operating system. My aim is to design a localized “user friendly” interface at the system level, which look more natural to the local user. I have also taken steps to localize suitable components within Linux OS (like KDE desktop environment) to enable applications to create, edit and display contents in the Lao language. Availability of local language software will play a crucial role in the process of taking the benefits of Information Revolution to the local community. In this way I can also prevent the restriction of resource usage.
since1968: You’ve estimated that a Jhai PC would cost about US$400 in production. That’s still out of reach for the typical Laotian villager. How can you bring the costs down?
Lee Thorn: We won’t. They are meant to be village resources, not family nor individual resources. Even in Laos a village can afford this system – once the system is built in quantity.
since1968: What economic benefits should the Laotian villagers expect from the Jhai computer?
Anousak Souphavanh: The benefits are as follows:
- They will be able to use Internet calling (VoIP) to their relatives living in overseas – USA, Australia, France, Canada, etc. – with fraction of paying to Lao major telephone companies;
- They are able to use the system to prepare their documents;
- They are able to learn the basics of English;
- They are able to surf the net via Lao localized web browser; and
- They are able to send email in Lao to their relatives/friends.
These are only small portions of what they are able to do.
since1968: I spend my day keeping up with Microsoft security patches, hoping that the code I write will run on various proprietary networks and systems, and worrying about licensing. You’ve built a computer that uses an open-source operating system and runs on car batteries and bicycle power. If the Jhai PC project works, it’s truly revolutionary.
Lee Thorn: Thanks. Maybe it is time for a revolution. The odd thing is that, as far as we can determine, no one but us has asked villagers exactly what they want in terms of voice, written and data communications, then designed to those expressed needs. (I’d love to find out that I am wrong about this.) I think this may be the source of the revolution, if there is such a thing as a single source.
Of course, Lee Felsenstein’s design is brilliant – he’s about the smartest guy I ever met.
However, the real revolution is based on the fact that we don’t do development, we do reconciliation, which means we help people help themselves at their own pace and with their own best thinking. We take the time to develop friendships, even when it is painful – and it is painful in these villages because everyone, just about, got displaced during the war by American bombing. We know friendships are not built overnight, but that friendship is possible – and that it is better than war, way better.
We’ve worked in these villages – especially Phon Kham – for five years. What makes our project revolutionary – if it is – is that we designed for specific needs for folks that have few advantages in material terms – but plenty of smarts. I learned this way of project design from my late friend, Ed Roberts, who was very influential in the Independent Living Movement for People with Disabilities. Ed told me that when a wheelchair is developed for some one like him – a respiratory quadriplegic – it tends to work for most who have less severe disabilities. It has wide application. It includes more than excludes. That’s how we operate in terms of model building and we do this because we are more interested in relationships with the folks in the villagers than anybody else’s priorities.
since1968: What can programmers and designers from outside Laos do to support your work?
Lee Thorn: They can send money to Jhai Foundation, 921 France Ave., San Francisco, CA 94112. We need US$9000 to do a one village test, US$19000 to do the complete five villages – and we want to get this done before the rainy season which starts mid-May. These are current hard costs with plenty of redundancy. They can also contact Lee Felsenstein, our chief volunteer design engineer and an old friend of mine, especially if they want to help build the PCs by hand and live near Silicon Valley. If techies have a burning desire to help in other ways, I suggest they go to our site www.jhai.org, get familiar with the system in more detail, then imagine ways they can fit in and contact Lee at lee@nerditude.com. Perhaps you have heard of Lee Felsenstein. He was design engineer for the Osborne-1, among other extraordinary accomplishments. Some of his stuff is in the Smithsonian. We cobble and tinker, as the NY Times points out, but some of the folks doing this are quite good at it. If some of your readers are not techies, maybe they could do the same search and present me with an idea for a way they’d like to help. I’m the kind of organizer that imagines he needs help of ALL kinds. My wife agrees that I am more than a little inept.
since1968: Thank you for your time.
Lee Thorn: Thanks for your good questions. If people have other questions, they can contact me at lee@jhai.org and I’ll try to get their questions to the right members of our team.
~~~
Buy Jhai Coffee to support the Jhai Foundation.
Read about the project in the Economist (requires subscription).
* * *